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In the sixth episode of Short Hand, we’re thinking about how to crew up your short film. Hear from producer Ameenah Ayub Allen (Rocks, Ali & Ava), Alice Whittemore, a Development & Production Executive at Film4 and Anna Ginsburg, an animator and director (What Is Beauty?) about finding, hiring and paying people. 

Topics covered include: what roles you need on set and where you might be able to think outside the box, getting references for your crew, looking after them and keeping morale high on set, getting HoDs approved by execs, what to do if members of your crew drop-out at the last minute, crewing up an animation and how different types of animations might affect who you need. 

There are so many [short film festivals] in the UK. So definitely take advantage of that. Because not only do you get the opportunity to watch shorts and see who’s in the credits, but you also get to expand your network to meet other short filmmakers as well. That would be my sort of top tip for identifying people that you want to work with.

Alice Whittemore

SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES

Tools for finding crew 

Short Film Festivals

Where to watch short films…

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Short Hand: Hello, you’re listening to Short Hand, ‘A guide to making a short film’, a BFI NETWORK and Film Hub South East podcast. Whether you’re actively making a short film or passively thinking about it, this is a podcast designed to help you in the journey from coming up with a compelling short film idea to editing it into a finished product. In this episode, we’re going to be talking about crewing up. You’ll hear from a producer, development and production executive and an animator about how you find the right people to work on your film with you.

Ameenah Ayub Allen: When crewing up for a short film, you have to see really, how can you do things that are streamlined and safe. So obviously you have a director, you have a producer, I would always have a line producer, a director of photography, a first assistant camera, a second assistant camera, and I would always think that sound is as important, I would always have a boom op and a sound recordist. Some shorts I’ve heard don’t have boom ops, but I think that’s a mistake. Because image and sound are so important.

Short Hand: That’s Ameenah Ayub Allen an award-winning independent film producer and ScreenDaily Star of Tomorrow, whose credits include the BAFTA-winning feature Rocks, and Clio Barnard’s latest BAFTA-nominated feature Ali & Ava. Ameenah has also produced a variety of short films. She won ‘Best Short Film’ at the National Film Awards for the BFI NETWORK-backed Above, and was shortlisted for a BIFA and an Oscar for the live action short, The Road Home. You’re about to hear her discuss how to be creative when it comes to crewing up, getting references and how you know you’re working with good people, and some of the more abstract or less technical considerations that come into play when thinking about who you want on your crew.

Ameenah Ayub Allen: So could you just have one person in costume? Is makeup very heavy? Or could you have a couple of days of just a makeup designer and somebody else? Do you need an AD team? And it really comes down to finances, because obviously you’d want to have everyone. Doing a short film as a producer is really challenging, so it’s about being really clever and thinking ‘these are my resources, what can I afford? And how many people can I afford on the shooting crew in terms of paying the minimum wage and what sits outside this?’ So really working out what are the bare bones of what you need.

In terms of finding crew, the short that I recently wrapped shot in Bradford, Yorkshire, so going to Screen Yorkshire, going to the BFI local Hub and NETWORK and see who’s been working on short films in the area. So I would start with that. And we were also contacted by Mandy. So that could be an avenue. I quite like to see who locally are graduates from the film school. So in our case, it it was the Northern Film School in Leeds. I would try and make opportunities for film students that are work experience. So they’re working for expenses during the shoot, and that makes your budget also stretch further.

And we also were quite clever. So when you’ve worked with people before in a professional capacity, we had the person that I normally worked with as a transport captain who worked on Ali and Ava and the latest Carol Morley film that I did. And he came on and organised the minivan and was a transport captain, but he was also casting and facilitating the actual action vehicles. He was doing catering. He was really being Unit Production Manager. That’s great. And he’ll get a credit for that work.

Getting references for crew is really important. And it is good to get a few but if you’re in a position where, and this happens on features as it happens in shorts, you lose someone then you’re trying to get someone in as soon as possible and it’s [about] who’s available. But I would always talk to two to three references for the key roles and the way that crewing works is that often the Head of Department, so your director of photography or your costume designer, or your production sound mixer will bring the boom op that they want. So there is an element of that and if they’re happy and they feel that they’re supported and their team works, then I’m very happy as a producer.

I think if you’re a good producer, you always put a lot of thought into the make-up of your team and how that will work. And for Rocks, director Sarah Gavron and I sat down six months before, [because] we had the resources, to think about the team. And you have to do it in a scaled down way with short films because it’s about who’s available, and what will work with your budget. But for instance, with and their music mingles, it’s a queer love story set in Bradford. And it was very important for me as a producer to hire HODs and crew that were queer, that also were of British Asian diaspora, because that’s also the make-up of the lead protagonist. And I very much wanted to work with Yorkshire talent. I’m not based in Yorkshire, but for me, populating the film with as many people from those three groups was very important. And we did succeed in that.

Short Hand: Next up, Ameenah talks about rates, communication, workflow, and making the impossible possible.

Ameenah Ayub Allen: In terms of the budget, rates and paying crew on short films, you know, short films are not commercial prospects. They aren’t TV. They aren’t films. Everyone will be doing more than what they’re actually paid for. So with a BFI-supported short film, it differs from a short film you’re going to make with your contacts, because you might have a short film that you make with your contacts, like I did with The Road Home [which we] shot in India, where actually, we weren’t paying the international crew. But what we were saying is come on this adventure. And we’ll pay your fare and put you up that and feed you but this is it. Whereas with a BFI-funded short or a broadcaster, where you have to pay minimum wage to the shooting crew, that’s what you have to do. And I think it’s like you can only take it as minimum wage and you know, that’s gonna go up in April. I like to give slightly more and so it’s a flat £100 a day. But you know, if there’s prep, if you can put some more in for like, prep and wrap allowance, then you do that. But it all comes down to numbers, because actually, you’d love to pay everyone for every moment they’re working on the film, including yourself, the director and writer, but unfortunately, you know, I haven’t had a short where I’ve actually been paid, paid. Because  we just want to make the best film.

Communication, when you don’t have money is really key, when making a short. Communication when making any film is really key. And I think if you can communicate well, so that everyone’s on the same page about the work and what we’re doing, and we don’t have too many resources here, but everyone feels appreciated and valued. I think that’s what you can do. And people should be encouraged to talk about any concerns in terms of health and safety or in terms of anything else they might be worried about. And the thing is that with the workflow of a short film, you know, sometimes things can go wrong, but you should ensure that for instance, you send round an actual workflow before shooting which the DIT, and the production sound mixer, the editor, the DOP are all in on and the director so that you know exactly what is the aspect ratio, what speed is sound at, so you have all of that really clear and ensure that you have your drives for the master footage and they’re treated like gold and you have multiple drives because it would be terrible to wrap your short and not have the footage or secure footage. So I think really be speaking and with where you might bring in people that you have worked with just really communicate that there is no budget here and or you know, if there really is a problem, which always happens as it does on every film, come and talk to me about it. I’ve exec produced a short film recently and they’re behind schedule because of the storm. And it was really communicating and prioritising what had to be filmed. So you have to be adaptable as a filmmaker, and you have to think of solutions all the time and you have to make the impossible possible.

Short Hand: Finally, Ameenah offers her advice for upcoming producers on setting the tone on your set, as well as keeping your crew safe and everyone’s morale high.

Ameenah Ayub Allen: In terms of setting the tone when you’re making a short, everyone knows that you won’t be there for very long, so that can make a nice atmosphere, but really treating people as well as you can with the resources. So if that means bringing doughnuts, you know, do that. We kind of consulted with the crew about what they would have liked to have had for meals because we’re not having unit catering like we would on a feature. So we organised for when we were in Bradford [to have] curry from a particular restaurant and just sort of things to kind of keep the morale and mood up. And actually, we were working night shoots, from 5.30pm to 4.30 in the morning, which was really punishing, but the crew were absolutely lovely. There was a great atmosphere. But just being on on the same page, and having that kind of short film camaraderie, that’s very valuable.

But for me, even though our budget, I would say, you know, couldn’t afford it, it was very important for me to have security so that everyone bringing their equipment, and because we’re filming at night to make everyone feel secure, that was important, and also ensuring that everyone could speak to me and that includes the cast as well. And really thinking about spaces where they are going to change and have their make-up done, and kind of small green room areas to increase comfort. We had a minibus for all four days, because that meant the crew was kept together. It was easier if something was missing and it could ferry people back and forth. And I took a judgement to have a unit base whilst we’re filming in a car park because we were filming through the night and the restaurants wouldn’t open at the time we needed the meal break. So it’s just kind of really thinking through everything and just almost imagining yourself in the day and thinking well, what do you need and you know. Very established producers say it always ends up boiling down to toilets and mini buses. And I think that’s true.

In terms of advice for producers and crew, it is really a challenge on a short film, getting the crew in this day and age because it is so busy out there. But if you can speak to other producers that filmed in the area, if you can have some execs working on the film that that can help and support, if you can think outside of the box when it comes to crew, it’s a really good opportunity, working on a short to see how well you can work with someone.

When I produced a BFI-supported short, seven years ago, I asked costume designer Sophie O’Neill to design it, who I had known as a costume supervisor from the BFI feature, The Selfish Giant. So Sophie came and she designed that short film brilliantly. And she’s got some big credits as an assistant costume designer. But really, it was showing the work from that film to director Clio Barnard that then meant Sophie ultimately got the costume designer role on Ali and Ava. So there’s real value in terms of working with new people, and also people in higher up roles during short films.

In terms of making the crew happy and productive, because you really want a productive hard-working crew, it’s [about] really looking after them and making sure that they can do the best with the resources they have. And sometimes you do have to say, ‘look, we can’t afford this, can you challenge yourself in this way?’ And sometimes with features and short films going through the lower-budgeted route that can sometimes have unexpected creative bonuses.

Alice Whittemore: When you’re looking to hire crew for the short you’re making, the most important thing that you do is watch shorts, and watch as many as you can. Either online, you know, there’s loads of channels – YouTube or Omeleto or Short of the Week or Vimeo. Go to as many short film festivals as possible. There are loads in the UK. I’ll give a few shout out: the Glasgow Short Film Festival, Leeds, London Short Film Festival, Aesthetica, Encounters. There are just so many in the UK. So definitely take advantage of that. Because not only do you get the opportunity to watch shorts, and see who’s in the credits, but you also get to expand your network to meet other short filmmakers as well. That would be my sort of top tip for identifying people that you want to work with.

Short Hand: That’s Alice Whittemore, a Development and Production Exec at Film4and formerly a Talent Executive for BFI NETWORK Wales. Here she gives her advice for hiring crew, how you find people full stop, but then also how you find people that share your creative sensibilities.

Alice Whittemore: I would also say ask for recommendations because the industry is very much, you know, in a positive way and in a negative way, it’s about who you know. Especially with freelancers, you’re sort of relying on recommendations and putting yourself out there. So asking people that you respect for recommendations of crew, I think it’s a good thing to do. I’m not a big social media person, but I know that a lot of people find crew on Instagram. So I’m basically endorsing some casual stalking, but in a good way. And I would say as well, in terms of finding people that you think might share the same sensibility as you creatively, in terms of you know, how they like to work and the story they’re looking to tell, I would say, consider the scale of what you’re doing and what level are the people that you’re reaching out to at? Are they at a similar level to you? Or are you sort of, are your expectations realistic, basically, about the crew that you want to get? What’s your budget is the key question there. How much can you afford to pay people? Because a lot of freelancers now are used to getting huge rates by the streamers. So you’re not going to [be able to] compete with maybe the top people in the industry, if you’re making a self-funded short. So definitely like try and see like who’s coming up at the same time as you. Obviously, that’s a great perk of going to film school is that you have that in built network there around you. But that’s not to say you have to go to film school to find that network. So definitely sort of reach out to your peers and try and identify who they are.

Finally, I’d say just from a creative standpoint, in terms of like the story you’re looking to tell, if you’ve got a limited budget, and frankly I’d say all shorts are made on quite a limited budget. But if you’re lucky enough to get you know, a chunk of money from say a funder like BFI NETWORK, Film4, or BBC Film, if you’ve got some money there, that’s the first hurdle by getting the commission and in that, in that commissioning process, you will no doubt be interrogated about why you want to tell the story, like why is the story important to you. And so authenticity is  key. So, if you’re wanting to get money, or if you’re wanting to get crew on board to help you  share your creative vision, I think you’re going to want to make sure that they are the right people to help you tell that story because that will be interrogated at some point along the way.

Short Hand: In the next segment, Alice discusses how producers or exec producers can support filmmaking teams in finding their crew, as well as the approvals process for selecting your crew members, especially in key creatives. She also provides her tips on approaching your potential Heads of Department, and how you can assess if that person is the right fit for your project.

Alice Whittemore: I’ve previously worked at BFI NETWORK as a Talent Executive and in my current role I’m Development and Production executive at Film4. I have also produced a couple of shorts myself and through those talent executive roles, I’ve been an exec producer. So in terms of supporting filmmaking teams, in finding their crew and working with funders, there’s a big approvals process, that’s all part of getting funding is that your funder will want approval on all your HODs. They won’t go out there and recruit them for you. That’s your job. But we will expect to get a list of who these people are and their CVs. There’s been so few occasions where I’ve actually had to sort of comment on somebody and say like, ‘is this the right person?’ More often than not filmmaking teams that are seeking approval on the people they want to work with, already have a kind of network around them, they have collaborators who they know they want to work with.

If you’re not at that stage yet, then that’s the beauty of going out and making something so you can try it out with this group or with different crew members. If you’re really stuck in identifying, say an editor or you don’t get your first choice DOP, then obviously that’s what your funders are there for, they’re there to sort of help you you know, reach out to some people. Film4, I should say, will send out a sort of production pack with links on you know, where you could look for crew. And particularly I guess as well the funders have a remit to make sure that the people you’re hiring are diverse and your crews are inclusive, so they will expect you to make a special effort to identify crew from under-represented backgrounds and give people that maybe haven’t had the opportunity to work on a funded short that opportunity.

My tips on approaching HODs and crew that you want to work with, I mean, it’s really simple, I would say just get in touch in a friendly way. So it could be through DMs on Instagram, it could be sending an email. Obviously it’s a freelance industry, so crew members usually have their own websites with their emails on there. If you’re looking for somebody at short notice, you probably need to go old school and give them a call. But usually, I’d say just a friendly, ‘Hey, you know, this is a bit about the film, your work looks great, your experience looks great, we’d love to have a chat’. And maybe being upfront as well, in that initial approach, depending on what the platform is, obviously, if it’s Instagram, it’s probably just a quick like, can we have a chat? If it’s an email, you might want to give a bit more information about what the fee is, what the expectations are. Is this something that you’re basically asking somebody to for no money or a favour? In which case, I mean, definitely be diplomatic and thoughtful about what you’re asking of people. If it’s a cold approach and if you’re asking them basically to work for you for free, you might want to sort of sweeten them up a little bit first, and get to know them. So it’s all like common sense, really. And it’s about you know, communicating and, and being friendly, because I think that does matter. And people will come on-board projects if they can see the creative vision, even if there is no money, because that’s why we’re all here. It really is for the love of film, and not to sound corny, but for the love of the art and making art. So if people weren’t sort of enticed by what you’re trying to do, they might say, yes, but you have to show that you’re, you’re gonna give them a nice experience, if they’re not gonna get rewarded financially from it.

You know, it’s very common in the industry, for people to say like, ‘Oh, do you know this person? You know, would you recommend working with them?’ So definitely, don’t be afraid to do that. Obviously, it’s not meant to be in a gossipy way, it’s meant to be a due diligence checking way. These are the kinds of questions you know, you could ask, just to give some examples. If you’re looking to hire somebody for the art department, it’s like, did their previous shorts come in on budget? For a 1st AD, they need to be a master scheduler, so ask their advice, in terms of how would you schedule this and just have a chat about it, without asking them to do much work before you actually give them the job. And I think it’s really important, obviously, I’ve kind of touched on this, but it’s really important to set expectations up front in terms of what you’re asking of them. What’s the fee? What are the hours? What are the demands we’re putting on this person? Because if that becomes a sort of nasty surprise later down the line, then that relationship is only going to sour. So again, it’s all about communication.

Short Hand: Finally, Alice provides insight on how producers can support crew members who might be trying out new roles, or upskilling on your short film set, as well as what you can do when crew members fall through, and you need to source replacements.

Alice Whittemore: So an aspect of short filmmaking that’s really great, and why it sort of exists as like, a step in the industry before you go on to make feature films is just getting a chance to try different roles and try out, you know, your peer group and who you’re working with. So giving crew a chance to flex their muscles in a particular role and you do often find it particularly in self-funded shorts that people are doing multiple roles, which I wouldn’t really endorse. But obviously, budgets can be tight, definitely all roles in the film industry exists for a reason. So it’s crazy, really the expectations that are on shorts, because you do essentially kind of need all the crew that you would need on a feature film, because you’re still making a film, but you’re still making the same product. It’s just a shorter film. But ideally, everyone is there, or everyone is clear about what they’re doing and and is prepared to perform maybe more than one role. You know, again, it’s communication and being clear about that.

On the funding side, and commissioning funded short films, again, there’s a real drive for giving opportunities to those that are under currently underrepresented in the sector. So there are shadowing schemes, for example, or trainee schemes. ScreenSkills is kind of the go to place for all of those. And I should also mention that ScreenSkills has a really useful breakdown of all the roles in the film industry and the departments which is really good. And it kind of gives you some some tips on your way into that role. But I think everyone needs to be on the same page. Like you don’t want a really experienced DoP being assisted in the camera department by people that have never picked up a camera before. I think you need to sort of match people up, or at least again, communicate. Time is so precious. So you don’t want any faffing around, or people like not seeing eye-to-eye.

In the process of making a short film, it’s very rare that you’re not under pressure. A lot of short films are shot in two to four days. So your schedule is really tight. And there’s a lot you’ve got to achieve in that short amount of time, often as I’ve spoken about for little money. So if say, a crew member falls through at the last minute, and you’ve got to find a last minute replacement, how do you navigate finding somebody who’s not maybe your first choice, and also having to rush them through prep? I think most producers will tell you that this happens all the time. And it’s so common, again, because it’s so busy at the moment in terms of production. It’s a freelance industry, so crew, you know, very reasonably drop out if they’re offered a better rate elsewhere. And that is happening all the time, because the streamers are dominating the industry and have that money to pay people an amazing day rate. I’m not gonna lie, producers are going to feel under huge amounts of pressure to try and find a replacement. But you do have to just explore all the avenues that you’ve kind of already spoken about, check all these these databases, put call outs, get your friends, if they work in the industry, to to do an Instagram story, like, you know, go all out in terms of trying to find a replacement. And I think definitely, just be honest about why you’re looking again, you know, explain the circumstances like we had somebody drop out. This is why. So yeah, being honest, being diplomatic, being clear about what the time constrictions are and what you’re expecting of them, make sure everyone knows what they’re signing up to. And just make them feel like included. Like even though it’s going to be a challenging time, it’ll hopefully be a good experience, and you will get a good film at the end of it.

Anna Ginsburg: Collaboration for me is definitely really central to my practice. I often feel like I’m uninspired by my own design style at the start of a project, and have to kind of exploit others’ skills to feel galvanised to begin, if that makes sense. So I don’t think there’s like a key collaborator that I always go to, there’s no kind of like, Ant to my Dec. It’s more just like project to project, I feel drawn to different creatives.

Short Hand: That’s Anna Ginsburg, an award-winning filmmaker whose short films traverse stop-motion, live- action and her signature hand-drawn 2D animation. She’s here to provide her perspective on creating your animated short film, why the people you might reach out to you will differ depending on the aesthetic of your film, at what stage she starts making approaches and how you entice them to come and work, or play, with you.

Anna Ginsburg: I’m currently reaching out to a whole new range of people to just steal their skills, to be like a leech to their skills. So yeah, I think it’s very much based on the project and the aesthetic that I’m trying to do on the project. With regard to what stage I start reaching out and developing these collaborations, when I get a job, that, again, really depends on the job. Sometimes it’s in the pitching stage. If it’s a commercial project, I feel like it would really, really help to get an illustrator on-board for the pitch, so we’ll get them on instantly. But if it’s something more like a short film, I will do a lot of personal development upfront. So I will make a pitch document. And then from there, we’ll send that out to try and hook people in as a collaboration. So for the short film I’m currently developing, I’ve already worked on it for like two months. And then I’ll send that out to, whether it be actors, illustrators, storyboard artists, or fellow animators that I think would be good for specific things, whether it be character animation, or dance sequences, or lip sync. It’s kind of like, I don’t think I’m the best at everything and I’m not a particular auteur, like I’m not fussy. I think it’s amazing when people just want things to look like their style. I definitely don’t like my style enough to feel like that. So yeah, it’s kind of really dependent on the job. Also you don’t really want to, if it’s a personal thing or you’re not paying as much money for other people’s work, so you really need to seduce them with the fact that it’s going to be something exciting.

So seducing someone who you really respect creatively to get involved in a personal project is an art form in and of itself. You really need to give someone the tools to believe in your vision. For me, that will be a big bit of writing, which is as visual as possible, which describes scene-by-scene what’s going to happen, paired with reference images. So images, maybe mood-boards of images that aren’t my own, and then style frames, which will often then change if I’m bringing in an illustrator, but it will be worked-up, quite developed drawings, maybe three or four of them. And then also some more rough line drawings at the beginning of character, or at the beginning of setting or whatever that are more loose to just evoke, the fact that I’ve thought more than just about one finished drawing. And then really beefing up the fact that you want them to think that you’re professional. So any awards, any previous work, a really succinct CV page. And then often I will have tried to already include a production company, which makes people feel like it’s more legit, basically. So Strange Beast will often help me on commercial or non-commercial jobs. So having a page on the production company, which shows that you have like a big production machine behind you, which again, makes it feel like it’s more legitimate and like they might get paid. But also, I would recommend putting in the initial email how much you have to pay them, because I find it so like, kind of disrespectful and peeving when when people send you these projects and never mention money on the first few emails, because it puts you into a position where you have to find out and and it’s a waste of your time, right. So being transparent with money upfront, I think it’s really, really helpful.

Short Hand: Next up, Anna talks more specifically about a short film she directed called What is Beauty? and why she collaborated with people she did

Anna Ginsburg: For What is Beauty? which was a self-directed, self-initiated short film, there are eight people credited working on animation and colouring for that film. The budget was so limited, we had £4000 and it’s hand-drawn animation. So it’s 12 drawings to make a single second, which you know, normally would cost I mean, animation, especially hand-drawn is very, very expensive, because it’s so labour intensive, right? So you’re making maximum four seconds a day. And that’s before colouring. And that film is two minutes 30, I think, so you can get the calculator out and work out how much you should really get for something like that if you’re paying people around £200 to £300 a day. On that job, we didn’t have the budget for that, because we were working on it for two and a half months, I think. So unfortunately, there was a bit of exploitation going on on that. I don’t want to ever use people totally unpaid but there were a few people on that job who had very little animation and colouring experience. And we were paying a reduced day rate of like £100 a day. I put some of my own money into it as well. And yeah, it was with those eight people. It was people that I loved, that I saw as a wonderful teammate, but also people who weren’t that experienced. So I feel like they could learn from me with regards to like movement, and how animated colouring works. So like the thing of cleaning in colour is a whole job role. And some of these people have never done it. Like my friend Juliet had never ever, ever, ever, ever done it, but she just wanted to learn.

Short Hand: In the last segment, Anna talks about pipelines and hierarchies on animation sets, and how it might differ when you’re working on higher budget short films.

Anna Ginsburg: So on an animation production, it can work in a variety of different ways. Depending on whether you have a production company or a producer, or whether you’re self-producing. I used to produce everything myself most of the time, unless you’re astronomically big and successful, you will also be designing and animating yourself. But sometimes you will be a creative director and you will be doing things like finding all the illustrators, finding all the animators and then simply giving briefs to everyone. But the way it works is director and designer animators and then clean up which are the people who make the line really, really clean, which is a whole other job. And then colour. There’s like a huge pipeline with animation. But when you’re starting out, you tend to just have the idea and draw it and colour it. So like most of the time, this pipeline is something that you discover later on as like this way of producing higher budget work where there’s too much for one person to take on. And often now with Strange Beasts, who are my production company, they will say, what animators do you think would be appropriate for this job and they’ll see if they’re available. And then we will bring on another team of people for colour and clean up who are less experienced, but have my sensibility when it comes to Photoshop or a more like textured, rough-colouring approach. So there’s different people with different skill sets for different things.

But yeah, it’s wonderful to have a producer if the budget is of a certain size, because they kind of protect you. In recent years I’ve been specialising in digital hand-drawn, like 2D. But in the past, I have done live-action and stop-motion, more puppet stuff. And yeah, with stop-motion, a lot of the production cost is very expensive up front. So you need a studio, you need somebody to build a set, you need to make puppets, you need to rent a physical space to set up the set. You need cameras, you need lights, you need a blacked-out space, which you know, if you’re a young person, especially in like an expensive city, this can be I think one of the main reasons why I moved into 2D is because production costs are nothing upfront, other than like maybe Adobe costs, but you can also get free 2D software from the internet. So yeah, the whole thing with stop-motion is a lot more high stakes upfront. And then when you’re in production, you know, it’s all set up, and you’re ready to go kind of thing. But again, to do a really professional looking stop-motion job, you’d have to rent a beautiful space, somewhere with potentially a Director of Photography, you really have to understand cameras, I worked on a stop-motion music video for six months at university, and I worked out that if I’d made it in London, it would have cost I think £125k because I had a stop-motion space for six months with two cameras and loads of lights. So yeah, not to discourage people because there are work-arounds. And then live action is totally different. So again, you need more money, potentially up front. But then it only takes a day, or two days to shoot a live-action music video, and then you’re in the edit, right? So in terms of the time, it’s cheaper in some respects, because you’re not having people work for three months on a two minute short film.

Short Hand: Thank you for listening to Short Hand. Look out for a new episode next week that will focus on the relationship between the cinematographer and the director. Thank you to our guests this week: Ameenah Ayub Allen, Alice Whittemore and Anna Ginsburg. Short Hand is a BFI NETWORK and Film Hub South East podcast produced by Nicole Davis with support from BFI NETWORK and the ICO team. Special thanks to our editor Graciela Mae Chico, and Epidemic for music.