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In the eighth episode of Short Hand, we’re going in for a close-up on working with actors and speaking to actor and filmmaker Romola Garai (Amulet, Scrubber) and director Stella Corradi (Sitting in Limbo, Killing Eve, Trigonometry) about trust, collaboration and cultivating performance. 

Topics covered include: what defines a good performance, how to honour different approaches to acting, why perfection is a myth, working with child actors, how to be flexible and playful, effective communication, figuring out subtext and giving notes. 

I think I also spent a long time as an actor not realising that or thinking that acting was about kind of a series of takes, that would lead to a perfect take, do you know what I mean? Like you start with something bad, and it gets better and better until you reach perfection. And now that I’ve directed, I just don’t think that that’s right at all.

Romola Garai

I definitely do have an idea of how I wanted to shoot it and light it and where I want that person to stand. But what that person is giving to me emotionally has to be blank until they offer me that and then we build on it. So it’s like a painting and it’s kind of impressionistic at first and then it becomes more and more detailed as we go. If I go into something with a fixed idea, I’m only ever going to be disappointed because it’s not exactly how I thought it would be.

Stella Corradi

SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Short Hand: Hello, you’re listening to Short Hand: A guide to making a short film – a BFI NETWORK and Film Hub South East podcast. Whether you’re actively making a short film or passively thinking about it, this is a podcast designed to help you on the journey from coming up with a compelling short film idea to editing it into a finished product. In this episode, we’re going in for a close-up on directing actors where you’ll hear from two filmmakers (one of whom is also an actor) about how to elicit great performances from your cast. 

Romola Garai: So I think there is a big difference between the feeling inside when you’re acting and obviously what someone else can see. I have felt totally elated at the end of a take and thought I could not have gotten closer to the experience that this character is going through. And the director is like, ‘I can’t use any of that, it’s all terrible.’ There’s not necessarily any kind of connection between those two things which makes you know, acting a wonderful, but extremely elusive art form.

Short Hand: That’s actor and filmmaker Romola Garai discussing how she defines a good performance. You might have seen her in films like Suffragette, Atonement and One Day. Most recently she made her directorial feature debut with the bracing horror Amulet. In this segment, you’ll hear Romola expand on why actors are a filmmaker’s principle collaborator and how you can establish lines of communication with an actor to help realise a story’s potential, as well as how to maintain that trust or sense of collaboration when giving notes.

Romola Garai: For me, a really good sort of middle ground, I guess, is that you feel like activated in the character and that you are hopefully feeling real or close to real emotions, but also that you’re in synchronicity with the director and you’re understanding the story from their perspective, and that you are also hitting the technical marks that you have to do. And so those three things, you know, awareness of the style of the film, and the storyteller, technical marks, the technical sort of constraints, and then also, you know, making sure that you are also emotionally kind of committed. I think that I, hopefully, have a very high level of trust in actors and trust that even if they’re not doing what you want, it’s not because they don’t want to be doing what you want. And also that they can give it to you, you know, like most actors are good and after a certain point in their sort of level of experience, or whatever, most actors can do most things, I think, if you make the circumstances, right, if you give them good direction and most particularly if you give them the time to do it, they can get there, and they are your principal collaborators, you know.

I think there is a weird sort of energy or structure that has grown up around film, probably just because physically the director is behind the camera. So there is this separation between the director and the actor. And that is sort of, I suppose, conceptually unhelpful, because I think that the director and the actor are the principal collaborators in the film. I try to work in that way and I’ve been directed a lot as well. So I understand it from the other perspective. And I think that directors who love actors and trust them, get great performances out of them. I’m not a great one for the whole, like, let’s manipulate the actor into kind of giving the best performance because I think that just shows a lack of trust. I think the actor is the person on the set who can really collaborate with you on storytelling. And a filmmaker might go out and really talk in incredible depth with the director of photography about how to realise the story visually, but then weirdly, not do that with an actor. Like the actor might just turn up on the day. And they might skip a lot of the important sort of work that needs to be done, probably because you would factor in pre-production time as an absolute essential part of making any kind of short film or whatever, but you wouldn’t necessarily factor in rehearsal because it’s seen as a luxury.

Also, there’s an idea that rehearsal has to involve like trust exercises. It doesn’t. It can just be people literally just talking about the story and the characters so that when you get on set, you know each other. Building trust is about, I think, relinquishing control to some extent, and that is about talking with the actors, taking their ideas on board and allowing them to influence your vision. You know, and vice versa.

I think particularly because acting usually does involve somebody to a certain extent, kind of monetising their emotions, which is a really difficult thing for people to go through, having a certain level of respect for that is really important. I really like directors who have acted. And I really like working with directors who’ve maybe just taken a few acting classes, even if they just sit there feeling funny and like laughing, but just understanding what it’s like to be paid for your own emotions, how weird that is, and what a total loss of control that is. I think that really helps directors be more sensitive to the needs of actors.

Giving notes is criticism, it is, you know, and it has to be constructive, so it’s always good to start with a positive thing. Like, if you approach an actor, start with the thing that you like. Say, ‘I really love what you’re doing with the ashtray’. Whatever it is, start with something positive, because then people just open up to that so much more. And there is no level of experience in the industry where that stops working. Believe me, I see it all the way up. People go, ‘oh, did you like that? What can I do to please you more?’ It’s an instinctive thing.

Actors are very, very different. Some actors don’t want to know anything about storytelling. They’re only committed to the character. And they don’t want to know anything beyond that. So I think yeah, the second thing would probably be to just really understand who you’re talking to, and the way that they work. If they’re the kind of the actor who only really wants to understand their own character, then you don’t need to kind of go into what they could be doing to help you with the storytelling. Other actors are extremely technical, you know, and rather than talking them to them for 20 minutes about German Expressionism, or whatever it is that you’re portraying on the screen, you can just go up to them and say, ‘I really need you to be further into the light at that moment. And I think that will really help us see what you’re doing.’ So knowing who it is you’re talking to is really important as well.

And lastly, I would say don’t be afraid to be honest, as long as you’re also being honest with yourself, do you know what I mean? Like, you can be really honest with actors and say this isn’t working for me, if you can also see what you are maybe potentially not doing to help as well. So I think an understanding of your own failings as a director is a really constructive way to go into criticising an actor and what they’re doing so that you both start from a point of view of going, ‘let’s talk about what we’re not doing to make this moment work’. I think that’s a better way to sort of go into a really serious kind of, ‘okay, this really isn’t working’ moment.

Short Hand: Next Romola reflects on her experience of working with a child actor on the set of her short film Scrubber, as well as how you encompass a broad range of acting styles or approaches on your film set and get everyone on the same page in terms of the film’s tone.

Romola Garai: It really depends with children on their age. Obviously, that makes a big difference. Honour, that we worked with on ‘Scrubber’, my memory is that she was six. So a six-year-old does not need to know about the story. A six-year-old needs to be given a task. And, you know, usually you have to make the filmmaking as surreptitious as possible, because really what you’re filming is not a performance, you know, you’re filming somebody who’s at play, or who’s essentially being a version of themselves. As the child gets older, that really changes. So I’ve worked with eight and nine-year-olds, who are better actors than I was. You know, they’re at that amazing stage where they can take notes, because they understand about collaborative play, because that’s what they’re doing, you know, with their friends and stuff. So in that way, I think the most important thing that you can do at that age, is just to make sure that they’re okay all the time. Particularly if you’re doing difficult things. I think you really need to sort of just check in with them a lot. Just give them very clear direction as you would any actor if they’re that little bit older. I think it’s very easy for an actor of that age, to just think it’s all fun, and not really realise that acting is quite a complicated thing. And you don’t want to kind of pre-empt that, but also just checking in a lot, I think is really good. And yeah, just being very clear is also very helpful in this moment.

Actors are really different. And obviously because I am an actor, I think I went into directing thinking, well, this isn’t going to be a problem for me, because I have lots of experience working with actors and I am an actor, but of course then you realise that all actors are formulated in completely different ways. I’s a tough one because I think if you give people individual notes, and you always go to each actor individually and direct them in a very different way, I think that can be challenging for the scenes sometimes, because they’re not quite working together. So I think you have to be quite instinctive about it. I would usually start with a general conversation with the three, say, there are two other actors in the scene,I would start off by saying, ‘Okay, that was a nice first take. Now to take this forward, I would like to ensure that the beginning of the scene feels really tense and fraught.’ And then after that, you can go in individually and work with people differently. And, you know, if you’re working with one actor who, for example, really needs to understand what’s happening in the scene in terms of storytelling, you can say, well, ‘I’d really like this take to suggest this’. And maybe we could do another version of to suggest you know, that you’re more angry with her and talking in quite technical terms. And then with a different actor who just doesn’t want any of that noise, you can just really narrow in on what they’re individually going through and talk about the character’s mother and how that affects what they’re doing in that moment and speak to them quite differently. So that you end up with, yeah, sort of general conversation, which involves everybody to understand you’re not working against each other. And then individual notes, according to what it is that they need. Again, this is something that anyone would be doing in their pre-production with their team, with their DP, with the editor. But it’s really helpful for actors as well, I think, you know, because they need to understand exactly as you say, what the pitch of the performance is.

I think I also spent a long time as an actor not realising that or thinking that acting was about kind of a series of takes, that would lead to a perfect take, do you know what I mean? Like you start with something bad, and it gets better and better until you reach perfection. And now that I’ve directed, I just don’t think that that’s right at all. Because, you know, a director can see something on the day, which is perfection, and walk away, and in the edit, it doesn’t work at all. And you might end up using take one or take two that you didn’t like, on the day, you know? There is this sort of, prejudice towards the process being sort of seen as cumulative, whereas I think it’s a really helpful thing with your actors to just say, and it’s a helpful thing, I think, for actors to feel like, let’s just play, let’s try this take, let’s try that take, we don’t know how it’s all going to fit together at the end, and have quite a kind of, I suppose, loose and playful sense of what you can achieve on the day, and give everybody the feeling that they can try different things. The problem with that, of course, is it takes more time. It depends how much time you’ve got to shoot a particular scene. But different versions, I think, loosens up the actors and also just gives the director more options.

Short Hand: Finally, Romola discusses how her experiences as an actor have informed her own directing style.

Romola Garai: The directors I didn’t like working with as an actor, I should say, I don’t like working with an actor, because I probably will meet many, many more of them, are people who have decided what the performance is and what it looks like completely in advance, because there’s nothing from that point for the actor. They’re just a puppet. Some actors enjoy that. And I have many friends who are actors who say, I don’t mind that sort of total summation of somebody else’s desires. They don’t have a problem with that. But I really don’t like that. And I think you’ll always find actors who just want it to be collaborative.

If you’re directing something, and you have a really, really strong idea of how something you want something to look, or you want a performance to be in a particular moment, I would go in early with that. And I would go in with that as an offering, you know, say, ‘I have a very strong idea of this, because, you know, I don’t know, I’ve lived with it for a very long time, I need you to help me achieve that’. Do you know what I mean? Like, there has to be a sense to some extent that they act his own, like desire to be a creative person is being respected as as well. And I think if you just walk on set, some of the most famous and successful directors of all time do this and have done this, like, it doesn’t necessarily mean the work is going to be bad, but it’s not great for the actors. Like if you just walk on set and say ‘Rose stands over here, and then on her third line, she walks three paces forward, then I will come in for a tight shot and you will be looking at the top right hand corner’. If you do that, if you direct like that, it’s horrible for the actors, and I think it can lead to a relationship breakdown, and there’s nothing that takes more time on the day than relationships breaking down. If you have good relationships that makes the work quicker as well, which if you’re making your first films, I think it’s not something to be overlooked.

Stella Corradi: When I started off as a director’s assistant, I mean, firstly, I started as a runner, and you get a very limited amount of time observing actors and directors as a runner, and I really found that working as a director’s assistant, I was like in the room for rehearsals and for those first meetings and for those castings even. So I really saw the whole process from the directors point of view and how to make that decision to cast and then how those conversations come about and how the rehearsal process really comes into play. And that’s something that’s really unique. And I think that you don’t necessarily get that in film school. I think that had the biggest impact on doing what I do now. And I’m constantly thinking about it. And it’s one of the most important aspects of directing and something that’s taken for granted sometimes or not invested in enough

Short Hand: That’s Stella Corradi, a 2019 BAFTA Breakthrough Brit and a director known for her work on the 90-min standalone drama Sitting in Limbo, as well directing episodes of the TV Series Trigonometry and the latest season of Killing Eve. Here she talks about assisting directors Justin Kurzel and Sally Potter and how their different approaches to working with actors has informed her own approach and why directing is a little bit like parenting…

Stella Corradi: Having worked for Justin Kurzel and Sally Potter, two completely different directors, I would say they gave me two different aspects and I always describe them like this. Justin has this big masculine energy like a fatherly figure. He’s this very burly Australian, like everyone kind of describes him as a Papa Bear. And so there was this very like fatherly figure of Justin and this motherly, nurturing figure of Sally. And the contrast between the two really informed my way of directing where I took the best, or what I thought was the best of each one.

If I think about directing as parenting, it’s interesting to me, because you’ve got to know your child, right? And know what they need from you and how to best communicate that to the child. So whether that is nurturing, or whether that is tough love or challenging them, you know, those are things that we analyse in our parenting style. And it’s also how I work as a director. And I don’t mean that in a patronising way to an actor at all, that they’re children, it’s just you have to be the leader as the director. So you have to make the rules and you have to set the boundaries and you have to communicate in a way that’s effective.

I’ll always remember when I went to Govan with Justin. We went up to Scotland to Glasgow, and we were like auditioning these kids that were like boxers, they were like six years old, like rough kids that had a broken nose already. We were finding these like child soldiers for Macbeth. And so Justin was like, so physical with them. He was just like, basically, ‘give me sit ups, stand up and give me star jumps’. He’d get them all out of breath. And then he put a match to their face. And he’d be like, ‘Don’t blow it out with your breath’. You know, it was like, very physical auditions. That was so interesting. And the kids really responded to him. And then I also watched Sally working with children, and it was playing, well actually, Sally plays with everyone, adults as well. It’s playing and nurturing and having fun and a giggle and warmth. And so I’ve always kept that the being a mother and a father and knowing when to switch between the two.

Short Hand: In the next segment Stella talks about working on the BFI NETWORK-supported short film Little Soldier and how she developed a relationship with the film’s child actor and how her process might differ when working with an ensemble of actors…

Stella Corradi: Little Soldier was my first short film, and it was through BFI NETWORK and Film London. And that was very much an intimate piece between a child and her mother, but mainly the child. So I had to form a relationship with her. She was a non-actor, so it was very much about spending time together, going to the playground hanging out. She had a twin sister and it was very important for to her to include her twin sister in what we were doing. So we were hanging out the three of us together all the time. I was with her mom, with her nan, I really like integrated with her family. We had a language between us and a trust between us that almost like transcended the script or what we were doing whereas, you know, with like an ensemble piece, you would have to figure out who needs to rehearse with who and like have everyone in the same room reading and discussing their characters and then individually, you know, or in twos. I would kind of work out what are the important scenes that they’ve got together? And what do we need to discuss? And I think a lot of that rehearsal process is conversation about what the scene means, what’s behind what’s being said. So a lot of that sometimes is not even reading the script, but figuring out what’s behind the scene. What led to this moment? What are the characters actually thinking? I find that really useful too, for the actor to communicate what they think that their character’s thinking, because sometimes that’s completely different to what I thought that that character was thinking or what the scene partner thought that that character was communicating. So knowing what’s behind the thought is really important, and sometimes can reveal so much more. All the time you spend together is so useful. Anytime you go for a cup of tea, a drink, a coffee or walk, whatever time you can spend together is really valuable.

Short Hand: Stella then delves into how that trust is sustained once you’re onset when the demands on her time and attention amplify, as well as how she goes about giving actors notes and finding a common language with them.

Stella Corradi: Once we get on set, it becomes a lot more stressful, and there’s a lot less time to discuss. But the most important thing is to give the actor a sense of time. That may not exist, but if there’s any stress that’s on me or coming from the 1st AD or whoever that we have to speed things up. Giving the sense that we have all the time in the world is really useful. I mean, the actor knows that there isn’t, but just knowing that you are prioritising their time, and that they’re not an afterthought, and that they’re not a prop, and it’s not stand here and deliver the lines, as we’ve already talked about it. It’s super important to give the blocking of the scene, a lot of time and a lot of quiet and take away that stress and take away that moment. And when we block it’s in an environment of creativity and not, ‘we’re trying to get stuff done’. And we’re trying to light here and we’re trying to do this, like you need to stop that. And we need to give that the time because then when we start doing takes, that’s when we pick up speed if we put in the work during the block.

And obviously the rehearsal time is really useful to that. If I give them that time, I think that that also contributes to that sense of trust, that they know that they’ve got that time, and that they’re not being rushed, and that they’re being listened to, and that we have a creative space. Because I feel like the moment you start pushing an actor and that they feel that they don’t have any time or any space, that’s when the barriers come up.

I’ve never been to drama school and I’ve never been to film school. And also the communication that Sally and Justin would have with the actor was also very private, it wouldn’t be in between takes. Giving notes is a very private moment. And so I wouldn’t necessarily hear that. I don’t consider myself the most eloquent person or the most like intellectual. So for me, there’s like a no-bullshit kind of way of giving notes, like me and that actor have communicated before and we have a language and I know what’s going to kind of get through, and it’s not necessarily the most intellectual. You just have to know your actor a little bit. You have to analyse how that actor works. And then that’s when you understand how to communicate a note to them.

So, for example, I just did four episodes of Killing Eve and Sandra Oh was very much aware of the camera and what the camera is doing and how that tells the story. So, you know, letting her know what we’re doing with the camera and where it’s coming in and at what point, talking about technical stuff with Sandra is a way of her like getting it straight away. She knows exactly what you mean. And then some other actors, for example, Jodie [Comer] just needed to know like, emotionally where she was and so it was all about emotion and all about connecting with what’s going on in the character’s mind at that point. The actor needs to know that you’re keeping track of and that you’re not just letting it go. You have to have an idea and you have to know, because we’re doing things so out of order, you have to know where that character is in that moment and why.

I think one of the other elements of building that trust is to be protective of your actors, as well. And I think in the early days, showing them that you’re protective of their time and of their work and of their contribution is really important in showing them who you are, as a director. The idea of tiptoeing around an actor, and I think there is this, like hierarchy, and there’s this kind of an actor that’s been in the industry for a really long time, feels that they deserve to be treated a certain way, because at the beginning, they were not treated that way. And so I find that treating all actors, with that respect, however small the role, giving each of them the same respect is really important, because you need every single actor there. Like you need every single person that’s in front of that camera to feel that they’re contributing and collaborating. And that’s not to say that you have to tiptoe around them, or given to any kind of diva-ish behaviour, but you need them, so I think it’s about valuing them. They’re still going to be in your frame, you know, so they’re still on camera. So you need everyone to feel valued.

Short Hand: Finally, Stella discusses how she caters to different acting methods on set, and keeps the experience as painless and playful as possible for everyone involved.

Stella Corradi: It’s a difficult one, and it’s something that you get better at through experience. But I think, again, being kind of a parent in the situation or a teacher, you know, you have to take in everyone’s level, everyone’s different process. There’s definitely going to be a certain level of intimidation, if you’ve got an actor that’s not been in anything before next to an actor that’s very famous. You have to take into account everyone’s vulnerability. And even that actor that is, you know, the most experienced has vulnerable days and feels vulnerable onset and as soon as the camera comes on, they feel vulnerable. I think the main thing is to keep all those conversations as private as you can. I would never give an actor a note in front of another actor, unless I thought it was just kind of just technical and fine. Unless that actor starts the conversation in front of everyone with me, you know, I take their lead on that. But usually, my communication is very quiet, very private, and to the side. And that way, I can kind of cater to everyone’s needs.

Also sometimes actors like to direct each other, which can be problematic. So I like to take someone to the side and say, ‘hey, you know, that’s how they feel. And that’s what they need from you to do their thing. But I like what you’re doing at the moment. So go with that.’ The director has to direct it, you have to have one voice, you can’t be you know, everyone kind of pitching in and giving their opinion about someone else.

And then in-between takes, having a private moment with each and just making sure someone doesn’t feel neglected. Because often, what actually happens is you neglect the person that’s doing the best because they don’t need a note, but let them know that. Let them know, ‘keep doing that’.

Keeping the experience as playful as possible is a really good note, because that’s really what I love doing. I mean, I really enjoy it. I think actors can tell that I’m enjoying the process of it. And I’m like, giddy, I’m excited by it. So making sure you’re like also physically communicating the positive nature. You know, there’s so much stress that can happen on the shoot. But as long as I’m projecting the fun element and the fact that I’m really enjoying this, I think that’s important.

Not taking anything personally, I think that you need to let things wash off. But you can take things from actors as criticisms of your work, when actually they’re like projecting how they feel. So always take everything with a pinch of salt. And say ‘That’s totally fine. Why don’t you take a minute? Why don’t we just come back to this?’ You know, like, all of that not taking it personally, letting go of that ego, and also letting go of what you thought the scene was going to be, letting go of what you had created in your mind of what you thought you wanted, the performance to be. That is really important. I always describe it as like, I see shapes, but they’re blurred. And it’s not until the actor gives me something to work with that it starts taking a human shape, or form. I might have an idea of how. I definitely do have an idea of how I wanted to shoot it and light it and where I want that person to stand. But what that person is giving to me emotionally has to be blank until they they offer me that and then we build on it. So it’s like a painting and it’s kind of impressionistic at first and then it becomes more and more detailed as we go. If I go into something with like a fixed idea, I’m only ever going to be disappointed because it’s not exactly how I thought it would be.

Short Hand: Thank you for listening to Short Hand. Look out for a new episode next week that will focus on creating an onset experience that is safe, inclusive and productive. Thank you to our guests this week: Romola Garai and Stella Corradi.